10 Comments

1. Posted by Ben W on 2009-11-09 15:07:50

   Tea all around, then!

2. Posted by Gene on 2009-11-09 14:29:56

   What, you won't have tea with one whom you disagree? How uncivilized! ;) Mind you, I don't walk around accusing people of belonging to a brood of vipers, nor am I condoning its frequent use, despite the amusing mental image it may conjure upon proper usage! I am not rude to people when they offend me or say something that I know to be false. I didn't to imply, jason, that you were advocating the singing of "Kumbaya". I understand what a TRUE gentleman is and I strive to be one. We have differing views on this subject, and that, my friend, is OK! I think that this is one of the issues that we can disagree upon and still be on the same side. "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity."

3. Posted by jason taylor on 2009-11-09 13:55:22

   By Jove Ben old boy, we are agreeing. Shall we have a spot of tea?

4. Posted by Ben W on 2009-11-09 13:49:11

   Hmm. I have to disagree, Gene, as there are many ways in which Christ's message agrees with the "world"s (ie, most secular 1st-world countries). We agree on promoting charity for the poor, justice in the legal system, peace between nations and peoples (when possible), responsible management of resources, and education and freedom for all classes and races of people. /// With respect to the areas in which you disagree - abortion, homosexuality, etc. - we can disagree without being disagreeable. You don't have to water down your beliefs for liberal Christians or the irreligious, but I'd like to see more meaningful discussion without either side resorting to name-calling or stereotypes.

5. Posted by jason taylor on 2009-11-09 13:48:36

   The point Gene was the phrase "Brood of vipers". I think using words like that except on unusual occasions should not be condoned, and that justifying it by the fact that Jesus did so is slightly presumptuous. Jesus was their rightful authority. If we were present the Pharisees would have been our rightful authority(unless we were gentiles). And therefore there would be quite a bit of difference.

6. Posted by jason taylor on 2009-11-09 13:38:24

   Yes, Jesus still is God(still is, is kind of inherant in being God). And yes the world is going to hate us. My point is to some degree that we should make sure that we don't deserve it. I did not say we should sing Kumbaya. I said we should be gentlemen. A gentleman is not wussy. He is(aside from the old meaning of "Petty Noble" which is related in complex ways) gentle and he is a man. He does things like walking along the bloodstained decks of a French ship of the line to politely ask the captain if he surrenders. And calmly and just as politely turning his back and returning to his own ship to continue when he is refused. Knowing that the Frenchmen will not stab him on the way back because It's Not Done. He is fierce in the field and meek in the hall. That is what I am talking about. To be able to disaggree without losing composure or hurting feelings unnecessarily. The lack of civility is simply the lack of ability to do this which creates a situation where some feel they have to lie to be nice and others feel they have to be rude to be honest.

7. Posted by Gene on 2009-11-09 13:10:28

   Jesus, as you recall, still IS God! ;) I DO know that Jesus is God and that he had all authority in heaven and on earth given to him (Matt. 28:18). I ALSO know that I am NOT God; not even close. But I also know that as believers, we are required to stand up for the Truth and call those out who are proclaiming things that are contrary to the Truth. That is why I gave my "disclaimer" about our responsibility to examine our hearts and motives BEFORE speaking out. The Church has been bullied by society into following the dictates of Political Correctness. Today, speaking the truth in love is seen as hate speech. Honestly, I'm OK with that. We are told that we are going to be persecuted and men are going to hate us for His name's sake and for the message that we bring. I honestly get worried when a preacher gets up and speaks "truth" and is applauded by society for what he says. The TRUE gospel message is a divisive one; it is a line in the sand; it SHOULD drive a wedge between us and society. This idea of "why can't we all just get along" and "let's all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya" IS antithetical to the true gospel message given to us by Christ. "What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?" (2 Cor 6:15). Finally, let me close by saying that I don't believe that Mr. Schneeberger is advocating a wimpy or incomplete gospel; I just wanted to present an alternate view and raise some questions about his stance. (Man, I love semicolons: http://thepoint.breakpoint.org/tp-home/blog-archives/7755-equal-opportunity-geekery-part-2)

8. Posted by jason taylor on 2009-11-09 11:49:21

   Jesus was, you do recall, God. The pharisees were his employees and presumably he had a right to drill-sergeant them. I should think we should say things like "brood of vipers" very rarely especially as it is more fun to do so then many will admit.

9. Posted by Gene on 2009-11-09 11:00:40

   (This is similar to a comment I posted on Gary's blog, but I have clarified one or two things here) Not that I totally disagree with the logic in the blog posting OR that I am advocating name calling, but how do we reconcile these views with the idea of calling people out when they blatantly do or advocate something that is antithetical to a Biblical Worldview, especially when that person SAYS that they believe and even follow the teachings found within the Bible. Even Jesus, when confronting the Pharisees, called them a brood of vipers and sons of the devil. I think that there is a time and a place for this kind of advocacy. I believe that we need to first examine our hearts and remove the "speck from our own eyes" first, then pray that the spirit reveal to us WHEN that time is, so we don't follow our human emotions into sin. We are to "speak the truth in love" and "be angry and sin not" (Eph 4: 15,26).

10. Posted by jason taylor on 2009-11-06 14:05:55

    In other words, a civil social conservative is a gentleman.