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Marc Barnes explains it all for you


Thanks to Elizabeth Scalia for calling my attention to this "provocative" piece by Marc Barnes on atheism, homosexuality, and religion. Provocative it certainly is. Also unique, original, funny, and fascinating.

Comments:

Anthony, the claim that someone cannot be judged on their acts because that is "what comes naturally to them" is the claim that they are animals. Humans have reason and free will. THAT is what is natural to them. Far more natural to them then what their sexual urges are. Denying that is denying what is natural to them.
"...but it seems, Anthony, that Dan Savage's "It Gets Better" would have no value for your friends, since they're happy and well adjusted. Is that true?"
-I would agree...but that doesn't mean everyone else is happy and well-adjusted at certain points in their life...my mom is 52 and finally found her "niche" with the job she took on last year. So, it's unlikely that Mr. Savage's "It Gets Better" would have an impact on most of the people in my life, but that doesn't mean it can't have an effect on others.
I will have time later for a more detailed reply, but it seems, Anthony, that Dan Savage's "It Gets Better" would have no value for your friends, since they're happy and well adjusted. Is that true?
"Let me ask you, Anthony, how can YOU claim to love homosexuals when you claim that they are animals with no control over what their bodies do?"
-Would you be willing to point out, anywhere in my post, where I indicated any of this?

"Why do so many people assume that we oppose gay marriage and homosexuality out of ignorance? In my case it's out of familiarity; I've been watching it devastate men and women since 1976."
-I find that interesting, because while I wasn't even alive in 1976 (I was born in 1986), I have seen the absolute opposite in the 6-7 years since I made my first actual gay friend. It seems as though none of my friends who are couples are unhappy, and most of (if not all of) the gay and lesbian folks in my life are in school, have good-paying jobs, are able to support themselves, are independent, are caring/selfless/dependable/affectionate/loving PEOPLE, and/or enjoy the finer things in life. Alot of the homosexuals that I know also have Faith, something that keeps them going.

"To me, a friend refuses to let you continue in self-destructive habits. They believe you can always be better than you are - that you can even overcome the impossible. They love you even when you don't love yourself, and they don't just shrug as you struggle"
-My friends and acquaintances DO love themselves, or they would not be able to love others (something I was taught...you cannot love others until you can love yourself first). They do not practice any kind of "self-destructive" habits (I only know a very few who drink in excess, smoke, drive fast, have unprotected sex or use any kind of drugs). I do not just "shrug" off someone who is struggling, I don't know where you got that from anything I have said.

"But you don't think the main character is fictional, Anthony?"
-Nope.

"If it's a story book, then how do we know for certain that Jesus even existed, much less what his opinion was of homosexuality?"
-I'll re-phrase what I had said before. I don't believe the Bible is a "story book"...but there are certainly alot of stories in it. And guidelines, as well...some of those guidelines Christians have seemed to decide over the years whether or not to follow. Why do conservative Christians yell at those of us who "pick and choose" what to "believe" from the Bible when they themselves practice the same thing?

"This statement is not true (nor for homosexuals either, even though lamentably many people view this as defining who they are)."
-I had initially posted over the weekend correcting my previous statement, saying sexual orientation is a PART of who we are. Unfortunately my comment was not allowed, so I'm having to do this over again.

"Maybe, in a few more years, you'll be a real friend to those around you."
-I already am, actually. I am the same friend to those that are just as good of a friend to me. And to me that is a friend who encourages people who are different (or even the same as me) to be themselves, love others, and most importantly, love themselves. I am there for their friends in their struggles. I am one of the most loyal and devoted people I know, and I'm certainly not a friend of convenience.
"I guess this person, as well as the rest of you at BreakPoint, don't have the experience of being as surrounded and loved by homosexuals, mostly gay men, as I have."

My wife and I have as our closest friends three gay men.

Why do so many people assume that we oppose gay marriage and homosexuality out of ignorance? In my case it's out of familiarity; I've been watching it devastate men and women since 1976.

"To me, the Bible is a story book..."

But you don't think the main character is fictional, Anthony? If it's a story book, then how do we know for certain that Jesus even existed, much less what his opinion was of homosexuality?

To me, a friend refuses to let you continue in self-destructive habits. They believe you can always be better than you are - that you can even overcome the impossible. They love you even when you don't love yourself, and they don't just shrug as you struggle.

Maybe, in a few more years, you'll be a real friend to those around you. Jesus accepted people as they were, but he also challenged them to be made new, and better.
Not so, Anthony
You write, "As heterosexuals, our own 'acts' define who we are."
This statement is not true (nor for homosexuals either, even though lamentably many people view this as defining who they are).
I, and everyone I know, is SO much more than simply their sexual activities, or even preferences-- how could anyone seriously claim otherwise?
You also write, "Morality may or may not exist"-- huh? In what possible functioning world or society can you say morality may not exist? This is sophomoric and untrue.
Let me ask you, Anthony, how can YOU claim to love homosexuals when you claim that they are animals with no control over what their bodies do?
How am I to love them when I tell them not to do what comes naturally to them? Because I tell ME not to do what comes naturally to me. Quite regularly.
Ohh Come on Jason...the man was thinking outside the box when he made up those images. I'll give him credit for that. It's just a different kind of way he is conveying his message. Straight-forward essays written in normal fashion are for boring people.

That doesn't mean I agree with it...not here to be an internet troll, not here to stir up trouble, but what he's basically saying, both about Atheists and homosexuals (omosexuals "practice" (though from what I've heard from many of my gay friends it doesn't take much practice) are the sin. As heterosexuals, our own "acts" define who we are. It's the same for the gays...therefor, how are we to love them if we tell them not to do what comes naturally to them? To me, that IS hate. We could get into a whole other debate about what the Bible says, doesn't say, etc. or whether or not homosexuality is learned or natural. But as a CHRISTian, I follow CHRIST. And I've been over the Bible with a fine-tooth comb, and I've struggled to find where CHRIST said anything, negative or positive, about homosexuals and their "acts". To me, the Bible is a story book...my favorite and wonderful aunt and I have had the arguement about whether you can "pick or choose" what to believe/not believe that is written. I guess this person, as well as the rest of you at BreakPoint, don't have the experience of being as surrounded and loved by homosexuals, mostly gay men, as I have. I can't say I have really very many straight friends...the great great majority of the people I'm close with are gay men and some lesbians. They're drawn to me, because I encourage them to come out of the closet, to be who they are, just like I am. They're no different than we are - And to quote the big man himself: "I no longer call you servants, because a servant knows not his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything I learned from my Father I have made known to you" ~John 15:15

To me, a friend accepts you for the person you are...and for me that is the gay community. The people I'm surrounded by are fun, caring, respectful, loving and affectionate people. Selfless people who have been there with me through the tough times. And there's no way I can condemn them for who they are, what they do in their bedrooms, etc. I support their rights to marry, to the same benefits as us, and nothing can waver that. Morality may or may not exist...but don't be hateful. They're people too. They breathe the same air as us, they feel love just like us, they don't deserve the treatment they get from some people.

Gosh, it's late. Maybe I should go to bed. I love BreakPoint! Always great posts on here, and my condolences for the loss of your beloved Mr. Colson. From what some have told me, he was a fantastic human being. You're in my prayers.
I would have preferred a straightforward essay written in normal fashion.